Council Scum
6:37 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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southbankbornnbred 12:34 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
Rob McCracken, Joshua's coach,
Never rated him, seen enough of him in how he coaches and speaks to his fighters, AJ should have left him years ago. Its why he never reached his potential.
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Block
5:09 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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Bred, true but if you have someone the size of Joshua walking you down and throwing heavy shots at you, even if they're hitting your gloves it's going to impact you. IMO.
It's a tough ask for AJ to beat Usyk in the 2nd fight, but it's possible.
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southbankbornnbred
5:06 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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Fury is right when he says that different styles make for the best match-ups and that any heavyweight has a 'bogey' fighter (in terms of style) who upsets their rhythm and confounds them.
Usyk is a superb boxer, but he would definitely struggle more against the 'up close' heavies like Chisora, Whyte and, of course, Fury (who can vary his style). Usyk wants to bang combinations and get out of the hitting zone. Chisora troubled him because he didn't allow that to happen by grappling him, shoving the smaller man into the corner/ropes and leaning all over him. Usyk couldn't always escape when he wanted to, and got drawn into a proximity fight he didn't really want.
But that takes ring-craft that gnarled Chisora has and Joshua, for all his power, lacks.
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southbankbornnbred
4:55 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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Block,
But it's not just about size, it's also about tactics. As you say, Chisora jumped and leaned all over Usyk the whole fight - draining him of energy by forcing his weight on the smaller guy. He then engaged him in close quarters, plenty of body punches, plenty of head work up close.
But I've never seen Joshua fight that way - even when he's 18stone of muscle. Early in his professional career, he seemed to like keeping a distance and throwing those huge right-hand bombs (which he seems to lose when he slims down).
Maybe wrong, but I'm not sure Joshua can fight the fight that Chisora did against Usyk. That was more naturally Chisora's "up close" style - and, you're right, it really troubled the lighter guy.
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stewie griffin
4:54 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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"He was more of a hardened lump of calcium with some skin and hair over it. "
ha
One of the most underrated of our fighters, for me. All gets lost because he was such a helmet in advance of (and after) the Klitschko fight.
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southbankbornnbred
4:51 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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Haye?!
Well, you know what happened there!
I think he did amazingly well to step up and win a title. But it's hard to describe as a 'boxer' the man he beat to win it. He was more of a hardened lump of calcium with some skin and hair over it.
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Block
4:49 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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Would have thought Haye is your idol, Griffles?
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stewie griffin
4:46 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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southbankbornnbred 4:42 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
tbf, Holyfield gets a load of credit for it.
Usyk has too.
The only one who doesn't is the 3rd member of that group.
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Block
4:42 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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Look at the success Chisora had against Usyk, he took the fight too him and was on top of him most the fight.
Joshua, hits a lot harder than Chisora, so if Joshua does stun him with a decent punch I've no doubt he'd put him away.
But, it seems to me Joshua has lost that edge.
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southbankbornnbred
4:42 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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I feel sorry for any cruiserweight or light-heavy who steps up to heavyweight.
No other boxers ever have to accept as much as a two or three-stone weight disadvantage. Yet we carry on measuring overblown cruisers/LH's against the natural heavyweights - because that's where the big money and big bouts are.
I think some boxing fans still underestimate the achievements of people like Holyfield and, now, Usyk coming up to fight much bigger and stronger men and taking titles.
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southbankbornnbred
4:33 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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I like Joshua - he's made the most of his talent and skills.
He's a decent heavyweight, but not a great one.
He MIGHT have a chance of defeating Usyk if he bulked up and re-found his punch. But, as some have suggested, the risk then is that he just runs out of gas sooner, like he used to.
Usyk, in contrast is an excellent boxer - but one who is naturally not a heavyweight. Hence, he's well into his thirties (now 34) and still struggling to bulk up to 16 stone, which is light for a modern 'heavy'.
It's the curse of the natural cruiserweight: an unglamorous weight division among promoters.
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zico
4:18 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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There is certainly an argument that Joshua doesn't duck anyone but to me he hasn't seemed the same since Klitschko rattled him and certainly since the first Ruiz fight. He was rattled by punches and that got to him which has made him change tack and in the event become less dangerous himself.
Dillian White made a good point that Joshua was all nicey nicey with Usyk in the run up, similar to how he was with Ruiz first fight so possibly not as focused as he should have been. That said Usyk is some boxer.
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Block
1:02 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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Only credit I give to Joshua is taking the fight against Usyk. He could have easily vacated the belt to fight someone else.
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Lee Trundle
12:59 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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I'm GUTTED there won't be an undisputed heavyweight fight in the near future.
But part of me thinks it would be criminal if Joshua had been part of that, as it's now obvious he won't go down as one of the greats.
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Alwaysaniron
12:57 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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Joshua didn't put together a single combination (that I saw anyway). He was totally and utterly found out! Usyk outboxed him and even out powered him. The lad should hang up his gloves and live on his £100m he has tucked away in the bank. Tyson would destroy him at the drop of a hat!
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ornchurch ammer
12:56 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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Russ of the BML 12:10 Mon Sep 27
You missed out on his entrance as well. Almost like he was too casual.
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Northern Sold
12:56 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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MATE big into his pugal arts stuck £200 on Usyk last week... he's not a big gambler and certainly does not have a lot of dosh to throw around... told us that he would piss all over AJ ... especially when he heard of how he had been training...
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Block
12:48 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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Whyte summed it up, over the last few years Joshua has moved away from what got him to being the champion, big, strong and hard punching going after people.
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zebthecat
12:43 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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Takashi Miike 11:32 Mon Sep 27
Quite.
Joshua/his trainer need to work out how he can get close Usyk without getting hit hard. I heard several pundits say blithely that Usyk didn't have the power to hurt Joshua and they were wrong.
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southbankbornnbred
12:34 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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Rob McCracken, Joshua's coach, has to take some stick for coming up with that gameplan/strategy on Saturday. Who the hell thought Joshua could dance around Usyk for 12 rounds and outbox him?
The heavyweight who beats Usyk will be the one who has two stone on him and can still box. So it looks most likely to be Fury, providing the Brit can keep his mind right.
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southbankbornnbred
12:31 Mon Sep 27
Re: Joshua vs Usyk
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Block, I agree that Joshua's best chance of beating Usyk is probably to bulk up and go heavy. Usyk is struggling even to make 16 stone at heavyweight, which would give any 18stone guy a big advantage.
That's why I was surprised Joshua purposefully slimmed down to just above 17st.
But even if he went back towards 18stone, he'd need the ring-craft to use his size and weight in the way Chisora did - and I'm not sure that Joshua has it. He's a puncher and relentlessly strong (when big), but he lacks tactical nous.
I doubt he can beat Usyk under any circumstances, but his best chance is to go heavy, lean all over the Ukranian for 12 rounds and make him 'wear' 18 stone of Joshua's weight for 36 minutes - which is fucking hard work.
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